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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.23 15:44:00 -
[1]
Another WCS thread....whatever...
For the 100 time: 'If your target doesnt want to fight, then make it fight, otherwise dont whine'
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.23 19:04:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Tadis
WCS = High slot module = Happy days for true and real PvP'ers.
WCS pilots still fight. They just have the advantage of warping out when they are about to loose.
Countless times in recent days I have had pilots of the opposing 2 x factions down to low armour only for them to warp away.
If you are travelling and using WCS for safe travel, then your at no lose if the WCS were high slot modules.
However its the people that use WCS to gain an unfair advantage in PvP that suck. In the wise words of the elders "Its just not cricket".
That will help: pirates and those pilots who usually tend to use defencive tactics i.e. camping.
So, if your for example flying alone in your BS in fully hostile region with like 40 jumps away from any dockable station.....wouldnt you git 1-2 WCS just for emergency of some EW Scorp jumps on you suddenly?
IMO, a change to WCS shud be done, but without affecting first 2-3 modules, just like dmg mods do. Make it that first 2 or 3 WCS(1 is too low since some BS use -2) and 4th and more WCS will be next to useless....
With this i see no problem catching 3 WCS BS.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.23 23:56:00 -
[3]
Lemme rephrase the above poster:
Interdictors > Bubbles > WCS.
You dont have enough scramblers? Learn to use tacklers and use of bubbles. Like to fly solo and gank stuff alone? Prepare for some ships escaping from you.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 00:48:00 -
[4]
Didnt quite got it, you call 1-2 WCS setups 'coward gank'?
And to who proposen chance based scrambling....it was proposed alot of times. And its a very bad idea. Since all youll have to do in scenario like this:
Target A attacks tanked Target B, Target B simply click on planet and start pressing Warp button. In 5 clicks out of 100 he will warp out. Even if he will have 4 points on him. Now if he has 1-2 point on him he will warp in about 20-35 out of 100 clicks.
Its been thru it alot of times....so that idea is old and completly useless.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 01:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Didnt quite got it, you call 1-2 WCS setups 'coward gank'?
And to who proposen chance based scrambling....it was proposed alot of times. And its a very bad idea. Since all youll have to do in scenario like this:
Target A attacks tanked Target B, Target B simply click on planet and start pressing Warp button. In 5 clicks out of 100 he will warp out. Even if he will have 4 points on him. Now if he has 1-2 point on him he will warp in about 20-35 out of 100 clicks.
Its been thru it alot of times....so that idea is old and completly useless.
no,
instadocks + safespots + WCS = it gets very hard to pvp in small groups [5members or more]
we send in a tackler, he finds say a raven and gets a pt of scram and calls us in. doh the raven has got 2 stabs and instadocks. warns everyone in system that there are hostiles. everyone docks. if he has a brain he also notifies alliance chat or some other region chat.
we send in 3 tacklers, doh everyone has noticed local jump from 10 to 13 and safespot or insta docks
now with added travil times of 1h to destination, 1h to get back.
after a while, this will get anoying and people will stop going into hostile space to kill stuff
what would that leave us with
bubble gate camps, and the bigger blob winning
less people going into hostile space
death of lone ganking, death of probably upto 3 people going and killing.
will make cepter squads more the norm, which it is too much atm
What did you expect? Raven in his home system, and you hunt him with a 5 man squard. Of course he will pack WCS and of course he will wanr everyone.
Next time approach ganking more precise and slowly. For example send in baits/scouts and other things.
So far i didnt noticed any high increase of WCS. And proposed changes about high slots is simply to make game one sided. First of all it wont let anyone solo in hstile regions, since most of those who do it fit 1-2 WCS not as 'coward' but as pre-caution when your lots of jumps away from friendlys.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 10:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 24/12/2005 10:46:59
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 24/12/2005 02:31:47
i never fit wcs, and when im solo i just gotta use my experience to stay alive,
and not some mods that make me invulnearable for many situations.
also my solopvping is kinda screwed with the numbers of stabs since theres no chance of holding the enemies - since gimping my setup with scrams is kinda ****ty for an pure caldari/shieldtanker.
so the more and more used wcs leaves me,
as said above, the option to hunt with 4+ frigs,
camp a gate with a bubble, or more since one bubble doesnt do much then pushin ppl out of warp, but these can turn around if they dont get ganked fast enough.
or simply blobb
- great..
its the combat fittings with loads of wcs that gotta b changed, not the travelling/industrial ones - to make it sure for thos who cant/wont read.
I find it hard to beleive that youd go alone lots of jumps into hostile region without something like HAC/BS and wont fit 1 or maybe even 2 WCS to make sure your trip aint ending when youll encounter EW Ship or gate camp with lets say 1 inty and 1 BS. If you dont have 1 WCS and inty got 20km disruptor....you will find yourself in pod.
So imo 1 or maybeeven 2 WCS isnt an indication of 'omg stabbed up'. After all, a true goal in such runs is to kill as much and make it out back. On the otherhand the 3-4+ WCS ships are kinda annoying, but thats part of the game. You got all tools to prevent them from warping. Use them.
edit: typos
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 12:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
not even one, single wcs.
its a matter of knowledge and honor, simple.
i can surely say youve never flown long solo runs then.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 12:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tachy
When you wanted to shoot down a cruiser and you're unable to pin it down with 1 BS and 3 smaller ships, you didn't try, you're had bad tactics, or you stopped yourself from doing it.
All you're asking for is a sure fire way to gank even unwilling targets.
3 or more wcs severely limit most ships.
Their pilots already dropped efficiency in exchange for an escape-setup.
Exactly even Raven with shield tank and 4 WCS wont be able to run its tank too long since he dont have any cap supporting modules like cap-rechargers or PDUs. Same goes for his dmg output without any BCS.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 14:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
sky hunter, i definately did that, as im sure many ppl can tell u that.
well, i used a raven with 4 multis - effective against tacklers but these arent as unbalanced as wcs.
Ok so you maybe know that without WCS in ship bigger or of the cruiser size, your certainly in pod if you get attacked by tackler+BS combo. Since you cant run from tackler scrambling while BS still locking you.
Ofc, if your only flying and not encountering anything then much smaller your size you dont need 'pre-caution' as 1-2 WCS in lows.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.24 16:56:00 -
[10]
Well, if you aint getting shot down while engaging 3 BS and having no stabs....those BS pilots need to go back to empire.
And yet again, im all for nerf of WCS. But nerf those pilots who actually use a full rack of them. Let those who want pack 1 or 2 of those if they arent sure where they are going.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.25 12:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
its called experience sky hunter ;)
while engaging 3bs in a hac is kinda extrem, goin around with wcs isnt, should b the norm.
no honor to wcs on combat ships - no excuse for that either.
Point is that you can everything to save or use your ship.
After all, even a ship with 1 WCS will laugh at the enemy bragging in local about him loosing ship and his friendly blob couldnt catch you.
Kill is kill imo.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.26 11:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bubba Fett
That guy in the Deimos sounds like a real jerk. You go to the bother of bringing 2 battleships to fight his HAC and instead of staying and letting you destroy his ship he ran away. Then when you wanted to go 3 on 1 he ran away again. He sounds like the most inconsiderate player in the game.
The good news is that the Deimos only has 6 low slots so if you bring 7 battleships next time then you've got him.
Signed
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.26 14:58:00 -
[13]
Fun ganking the ships you 100% sure youll take down?
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.26 17:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 26/12/2005 17:27:32
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 26/12/2005 17:26:59
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 26/12/2005 17:26:13
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 26/12/2005 15:18:56
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Fun ganking the ships you 100% sure youll take down?
1v1's are never "sure wins", especially against a domi.
Edit. btw, the more stabs you fit, the more we need to gank you, as we can't hold you otherwise.
Me? Have you ever even seen me in overview so you can tell whenther i fit stabs or not?
And yeah, i fit 1 WCS when im going into region i have no idea about. I.e. i dont have idea of current hostile forces amount or the main routes there.
More of that 1-2 WCS arent much of trouble, like i already said: kill is a kill. Let your enemys moan in local about 'oh noes no fair you ganked our BS when we just warped in with 5 pilot mini-blob'.
Loose a ship whenever you kill a ship and his buddys try to gank you? Sorry no way.
Make this game more gank/pirate friendly? Sorry no way. Noone said that pirating or pvp should be easy.
Nerf those who fit more then 2 WCS and gank tacklers inside 10 pilot fleet? Surely YES.
That is exactly why i proposed to make more then 2 stabs next to useless. So WCS wont be a 'trash module' like damage controls were, and same time you wont have trouble catching BS IF you are expirienced and fly in group with good tacklers.
And my opinion that this topic had run its course like many many others.
If WCS changes will be implemented, ill say lets have them. But not unless it will make WCS useless, or will make any of modules in line of Scrambler<>WCS useless or too overpowered. I.e.not having a opposite countermeasure.
Since atm wer looking at:
WCS got following countermeasures:
1) Tacklers with regular scramblers/disruptors.
2) BS with sometimes faction disruptors/scramblers.(Why dont have a +3 strenght WCS from Stele Schellan NPC Officer?).
3) Bubbles(very powerfull, since it cant be countered with anything but speed).
4) Interdictors(havent tryed yet, but prolly same as bubbles or even more effective).
So its 1 vs 4....good isnt it? No module in game got so much counter-measures as WCS do.
Lets try to counter-measure EW i.e. Sensor Damper & Jammer?
1) Backup arrays+ Sensor Booster(depends on ship).
2) FoF missles(Caldari mostly).
3) Jamming/Damping back.
So its 1 vs 2/3 or maybe even 1v1 since #2 and #2 can be applied mostly to Caldari(FoF missles) or to ships with considerable amount of medium slots for spare use.
Now you still think WCS is overpowered?
EDIT: typos.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.26 21:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Me? Have you ever even seen me in overview so you can tell whenther i fit stabs or not?
I never wrote that you wear stabs.
Sorry for mis-understanding then.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.26 22:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: dantes inferno
ok if we take
stabs for traveling = good
stabs for combat = bad
one solution would be
Stab 1 = +25% Rof penelty
stab 2 = +50% rof penelty (stacked with stab 1 = 75%)
stab 3 = +75% rof penelty (stacked = +150%)
stab 4 = +100% rof penelty (stacked = +250%)
this will make any one who takes a stab setup in to combat usless..while allowing people who use it for travel to do so with no harm.
Read last 2 last posts on previous page, then think again.
Seems like people post just to post something 'mainstream' and think theyre looking like they read whole topic.
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